30 replies to this topic

[Phoenix]

Here you can comment on or discuss the latest news concerning leaked retail files as mentiond in http://forum.alcohol...showtopic=24708

[zamiel]

<non official mode>

I believe people that purchase software with the intent of leaking it to the warez seen are worse than the actual people who download it. I can't think of one valid reason why anyone would do this as you're only hurting yourself and other customers. Instead of improving the software, companies such as Alcohol-Soft have to spend time trying to combat this problem all because a breach of trust and contractual obligations.

I say Kudos Alcohol-Soft for taking an active role in protecting your customers and software.

</non official mode>

[MaLing]

Honestly, I have never entered any warez sites, but I suppose the cracked files are freely downloaded by any pirates there. Therefore, I really do not understand, why the false customers are willing to pay money to buy Alcohol, then consume efforts to amend and c*rack the programme, and then release it without any rewards to the public by risking legal consequences.

To close leakers accounts are not adequate repays for them, however to take legal actions are, unfortunately, not cost and time efficient either.

Is that possible to ask for a money punishment from the leakers first? If they do not agree, then Alcohol-Soft will take legal actions. It is because a lot of customers buy Alcohol from Alcohol-Soft's web site by credit cards, the punishment may be charged to their credit cards' accounts. Of course, that will involve in legal issues and customers' terms and conditions, about which I am an idiot.

Edited by MaLing, 25 November 2006 - 12:01 AM.

[Xervek]

Sorry for asking here, I have some problems to understand formal-english-messages. Does this mean, that you have added something to the files so that you are able to see with this who released a retail version on a pirates site or what? Or is this a secret you can't say? I don't understand the message well just red it and understand it how I wrote it. Well it's okay if you do so, I purchased it and so I must not have a fear of you, but it would be nice to undetstand this a littlebit better for me...

Thanks and kind regards

[WyleCoyote]

I must say that I don't understand why a paid, legitmate user would release their copy of the software. Of course, I also have to say that I'm embarrassingly ignorant concerning warez, as I've always bought my software.

I am a software engineer, so I understand you wanting to protect your software. Having said that, my concern would be that some spyware/malware/trojan could download a copy from an innocent customer's system, and the customer would have no way to prove their innocence. I just want to make sure only the guilty are punished. Unfortunately, I don't know of a foolproof way to accomplish it, but I support your efforts to find one. Please don't take my comments wrong, I do NOT condone piracy!

[Jito463]

@WyleCoyote
That would have to be a specifically targetted virus to find an installer by a specific name and then force an upload to a specific FTP site or e-mail address (which I'm not sure would even work as 7MB is pretty big for an e-mail attachment). For one thing they'd have to make sure it was a customer of Alcohol, and then they'd have to make sure that they even had a copy of the installer on their computer. I - for example - don't keep a copy on my computer, though I do usually keep a backup around on other media just in case.

@Xervek
Essentially, it was a sting operation and it netted three seperate users who have now had their licenses revoked.

[2005]

I say +1 alcohol soft, I really didn't doubt piracy had dropped all that much but that may have been mainly due to takeing down the public support fourms. Not getting to see the 5+ posts every week where someone couldn't get their hacked alcohol to run proplerly may have falsely led me to believe alcohol 120% had won.

Further more, I don't see how this in itself would be enough. Their only buying the program to allow others to make non legal versions (many of which require no serial or activation) and once its in the wrong hands a ban of the original buyer does little (save stopping him from getting each new version).

I know theres no easy way to do it, but nothing says obey the rules like a nice financial beating in court =)

[MaLing]

Is that possible to ask for a money punishment from the leakers first? If they do not agree, then Alcohol-Soft will take legal actions.

Just a little correction.

What I actually wanted to say was:
In the customers' terms and conditions, they state that punishment fees will be levied from false customers. The fees are automatically charged to these false customers' credit card accounts once these people break their terms and conditions. I assume that this will involve in legal procedures less.

For instance, EBay asks for registrations of credit cards' information from buyers. If any buyers do not fulfill their bidding contracts, ie do not pay money to buy the goods, EBay may charge the prices to those buyers' credit card accounts. (However, this is only what I have heard, I have not any idea whether this is true or false.)

Edited by MaLing, 25 November 2006 - 11:06 PM.

[MaLing]

Oh, well, did I wrongly get the idea? Should the question have been 'What are the views of adding a tracking system into the retail installation file'?

If so, then that is sensible for me. However I guess that customers who own more than one licences will find it a little bit troublesome, as these customers must sort out which file is for which licence when they install, especially if they keep all the files on a disc and install from it.

Edited by MaLing, 25 November 2006 - 11:19 PM.

[zamiel]

I believe this would not work as a customer needs to be aware of this clause before they purchase and what you'll find is some reverse the charges on their credit cards, so....

[MaLing]

Maybe on the terms and conditions mention something like that:

You agree to accept a fine of (certain amount) if you release the file to the public...

[KitnaIsntHappy]

Just like to say good work to the Alcohol crew.
It's a shame to see customers treat you with such a lack of respect, I am glad you have started to fight back

[Robbo]

Maybe on the terms and conditions mention something like that:

You agree to accept a fine of (certain amount) if you release the file to the public...

This would be impossible to do for the simple reason poeple would just not buy the Software and more than likely any half decent Lawyer would be able to get something like that overturned. The best thing is to hope that 99% of the Customers think the same way that I do with regards to purchasing Software then letting others use it, no way will I jepordise the programs that i have paid good money for by giving my serials/reg information to others.

[Phoenix]

Let me try to put this all into perspective without going into details of what we have done this time, or what we will do with further releases of our software in an effort to halt the release of retail files to hackers that enable them to release nonlegal versions of our software.

When a user purchases the software they are told "By clicking the order button you agree to having read, understood and accepted the terms and conditions" http://shop.alcohol-...om/en/terms.php

Within the terms and conditions are.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT THE SOFTWARE MAY CONTAIN CODE OR REQUIRE DEVICES THAT DETECT OR PREVENT UNAUTHORIZED USE OF THE SOFTWARE.

You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of your serial number and email address and are liable for any harm or loss resulting from disclosing or allowing disclosure of any serial number or from use by any person of your serial number\email address to gain access to the Software.

In the three cases we have determind through measures that we have taken that there is no doubt concerning the files were relesed by these people or people known or unknown who had access to their accounts. In these cases we have exersised our rights as laid out in Terms and Condidtions.

Alcohol Soft reserves the right to suspend or terminate your access to all or any part of the Service at any time for any reason without prior notice or liability. Alcohol Soft may change, suspend or discontinue all or any aspect of the Service at any time, including any feature, database, or content, without prior notice or liability.

[Charalambos]

Some hackers are so stubborn that they'll buy a program in order to ###### it. On the other hand some customers are willing to give the program that they bought away to others, even to hacker sites, considering it as an act of friendship or as "a contribution to the society". Personally I can give a program to a good trusted friend( never Alcohol with my email, serial number and the trust of its people) or take a program from him but providing hackers with it is far beyond my conciousness restrictions. These guys think that they are smart and genuine but in fact they are no more than common thieves. The fact that they don't keep the stolen copyrighted material for themselves doesn't really make any difference.

[Tron]

Even if you give a program to 'one' trusted friend many times that friend gives it to another trusted friend. Before you know it, your legal copy that you bought will end up on a warez site. It is not worth sharing. If you have a good friend they will understand that they need to purchase their own copy to protect your integrity. I have family that have asked me for a copy of Alcohol, I have directed them to the purchase site...... This is true!

[free spirit]

The thing about all this is 10 years ago only "hardcore hackers" or "warzers" would know how to get illegal or cracked programs...... fast forward to now with Securom not working legitimately on some systems, Starforce allegedly killing drives and the myriad of other problems caused by security systems, compounded with the fact legitimate software like alcohol needs "slightly questionable" software such as "hiders" to make them work as intended, has forced consumers to seek out other methods such as No-CD's, the aforementioned "hiders" and other methods (if your hardware doesn't make good images for example). the only way to get such media is to go to slightly "dubious" sites and i find if people are there you have a look around.....

I'm not making moral judgements on anyone it's just human nature.......

I find it quite sad that the very companies that are trying to make protection systems are the very people that are creating the "pirates", but when my dad gives me a game disc for my son (legit, he has payed money for my sons copy) and says get the no-cd from such and such as this helps with so and so, i know these companies have lost all sense of proportion on this piracy and copy debate .

[djawor]

I pay for the games that I have, I use Alcohol and software like it for the convience of being able to run my games without having to change out cds, wait for drive to load, have to replace a game becuase the disk has gotten to sratched to be read. DRM does not prevent or stop people from making illegal copies, it just pisses off ligit owners.

[Tron]

LOL.... well said........

[duydaniel]

@WyleCoyote
That would have to be a specifically targetted virus to find an installer by a specific name and then force an upload to a specific FTP site or e-mail address (which I'm not sure would even work as 7MB is pretty big for an e-mail attachment). For one thing they'd have to make sure it was a customer of Alcohol, and then they'd have to make sure that they even had a copy of the installer on their computer. I - for example - don't keep a copy on my computer, though I do usually keep a backup around on other media just in case.

@Xervek
Essentially, it was a sting operation and it netted three seperate users who have now had their licenses revoked.

I think they just need to steal your email and password and log in to Alcohol soft to download. Then spread the retail version with serial.