60 replies to this topic

[Tron]

I thought that we got that fear when terrorists flew planes into our twin towers and Pentagon. There were many other attacks as well but these were the last straw. Many of our people were slaughtered that day including many women and children. These same terrorists killed hundreds of children in Russia at a school. They need to be stopped and Bush is working on it. if you call that being a terrorist then so be it. How many have to die before the world joins up and deals with these people? Saddam killed many people. They are finding mass graves over there and is is pretty bad. He needed to be stopped, just like Hitler needed to be stopped.

[ptolomeus3]

Ok, if you don´t want to vote for me anymore, I give my opinion about Bush & Co. even if nobody cares what I say
I think that each country has the right to defend itself. And the attack on those twin towers were really terrible. In fact you can´t find the right words for such a slaugther of civilians There is NO excuse for such things, whoever does it !
On the other way, I think that the americans are behaving like a really messy arrogant nation. Thats what happens when you are by far the strongest nation (from the military point of view) ... History repeats itself...
Fighting people like Hitler or Sadam or Bin Laden or ... is right but you must be very very carefull. You become faster as you thing just like your "enemy". Look at the americans, if you have a different opinion as the official one, your bad (unpatriotic, etc...). This is already the end of democracy because if you must keep your opinion and your right of free expression to yourself because otherwise you ARE the bad guy ... for what have all those earlier generations suffered (sacrified many of their sons) ?
What is democracy in a nation when most of the newspapers and tvstations have the same opinion (and are owned by just two or tree people or holdings/companies) ? How could such a nation have really different opinions ?
And last but not least: all governements love "terrorists" because they all have a excuse, each time (!), to chop another piece of OUR rights and civil liberties. And that is NOT american but worldwide so :no:
OK, thats it, your fault, you should have voted for me and would have been spared this long text

[clemento]

Well lets look at the Iraq issue. In 1991 Saddam invaded Kuwait and the allies went in to help them defend their country, this was the right thing to do. Saddam invaded a country for no reason and should of been forced out and he was.

Forward 12 years.

George W Bush invades iraq, oh thats ok he's allowed to do things like that. Thousand of innocent people have died in Iraq at the hand of the Americans. Innocent America & British soilders have died in Iraq needlessly. The reason for this invasion? Sadam was developing weapons of mass destruction, what weapons of mass destruction? They've never found any! That was just an excuse.

Lets look at who does have weapons of mass destruction, AMERICA! but thats ok, lets also look at a country that has used weapons of mass destruction, AMERICA again! I suppose thats ok to.

[BigTy]

Let me hand Bush my copy of Command and Conquer becuase he needs it. I agree at this point we need to stand up becuase we are in a war with NO end in sight. As for who and why I voted I had a choice of crap and stinking crap. Both sucks ballz so life does go on I agree and I have to support this joker for another 4 years. but all I know is when its time to vote again he wont be there .1 plus is Bush's daughters are pro party girls IF you know what I mean .

[shawn_nee]

Bush's daughters are pro party girls IF you know what I mean .

Pro party hahahahahaha!!!!

Hey one of them got busted down here for underage drinking. The bar owner called the police and she got arrested. Can you imagine going up to her and haveing o go through the secret service to arrest her. I bet that was an awkward scene.

Bush is just playing a reality version or RISK.

[Tron]

You have a right to your opinion, but at least get the facts right. Saddam used Sauron (not sure of the spelling) gas and other gasses to kill thousands of his own people. These are weapons on mass destruction. They also found (during this war) Sauron Gas in road bombs, but no body seems to remember that. Also during the time before the invasion there was a "UN No Fly Zone" which was violated many times. Also the oil for food program was abused to get money that was paid to suicide bombers that would bomb Americans and also they are tracking info that shows it is possible that he also used some of this money to support other terrorists. His army shot at our planes on many occasions. They were not supposed to have the weapons they found buried in the sand like jets(purchased from France who is in the UN). Bush did not invade by himself, Congress voted to go in (Kerry was in that vote and also voted to go in).... Mistakes were made, I can not justify everything that goes on, but in my opinion it was something that needed to be done. We are evil for going there. If we did not go in and allowed this guy to continue killing and torturing people then we are evil for ignoring the problems of the world....... Can't win........

[BigTy]

I remember every news report youre talking about I watch it EVERYDAY at work bottomline is My work mates and old friends are being killed over there for a cuase that isnt really needed. I agree something MAY have needed to be done but dont fluff the world and act like youre going after one person and turn butt backwards and roll out for something else and do the ultimate flim flam and say oo this is a war on terror. BS this is something you deside you wanted to take up. Tell the truth be a man say I want ot actack this place becuase I'm finishing my fathers work. Heck I would respect that more. If this was an attack on terror there is MANY MANY MANY gangs and mobs in CA alone to keep people busy. done there hey we have Houston DC NY the list goes on. Another thing that ticks me off is the armed forces are being stretched WAY to thin It was ok when I was in now we have people all over for " Policing Actions" SHHHHHHHHH##%$$%. If I wanted to be police I would have signed up for that but I didnt I signed up to be artillery not a baby sitter for 3rd world place that doesnt have running water. Thats the job now so I got out. I will say I stand on some points with Bush dont ge tme wrong Gay marrage make me for a now on that one. Poor people not working mooching off my tax dollars mark me for a no on that one. short of that pfffft it was a choice of crap and hot steaming crap. on a brighter note he is on his LAST four years 4 years 57 days left till he is out of office.

[clemento]

So Saddam torture's and kills his own people? How many people in America get killed each year by other Americans? You have a Gun Culture!

As for Terrorism, the Taliban was actually given weapons by the American in the 80's to try to oust the Russian. Your own country supported terroists!

Now as for torturing people, lets talk about Guantanmo Bay! You have people held there with no trial who are being tortured with the appoval of your government. When will you american learn that your government feed you all lies so that you will think they are fantastic. It's pathetic.

[Tron]

England has a gun ban in place and look at the crime rate there. Guns have nothing to do with it. Ban guns, that wont solve a thing. It has been proved. As for fighting in Iraq, if you were not fighting there the terrorists would be over here bombing us. It does not matter where you fight them. They declared war on us when they killed thousands in the towers and on the USS Cole and many other targets. Saddam was paying bombers to kill Americans. That is a declaration of war! They are going to go wherever they have to in order to kill Americans. We have every right and obligation to fight them. If we just stayed home the same guys would be dying, because we would be fighting them here, the only difference is that more civilians would die with them.They are not going to stop because you don't go after them. Wake up.... People are going to die in a war. Military men do die when they fight. I am ex military too. I have many friends over there. They are proud to be doing what is needed. Not everyone is going to agree with us, too bad. We are the big boys in town and we have an obligation to see this to the end. Again I must point out that the majority of Americans have voted for George W. again, so most of them think he is doing a good job....... If you do not like what is going on then stay out of the way while we finish this. You will all be living in a better world when it is over. Sometimes people do not know what is best for them. It is a fact of life. We are at war and we can not just walk away. Is the world a better place without Saddam in power? You bet it is.....

My opinion has been posted. I know many don't agree with me, but that is the beauty of a free society, you don't have too. That is one of the freedoms we have fought for and continue to fight for. This is my feeling on it, it is not going to change. I will not post again because it will just cause flaming. If this does turn into a flame post I will have to edit and close it, so keep it civil....

[clemento]

Tron.

I am not having a personal go at you mate, maybe some of the words I used in my last post should of been a bit better put. Reading it back it might seem as I was talking to you personally but I wasn't.

I have no beef with you, my problem is with the American administratoin. As you say everyone is entitled to their opinion and obviously ours differs. Hey not a problem.

Perhaps we should end this topic here

[pollutedshine]

No this is a hot topic and opinions define us. I agree the twin towers shocked me to the core. I'd just got home from a big night out and watched live and horrified as the second plane hit, it sobered me up. To the other extent I watched a young girl express her sadness to the americans lost in that disaster, and then say: 'this is everyday for me, and my people'. She was from Israel, where everyday innocents are killed by suicide bombers. (many other countries to) It took the towers atrocity to finally get the most powerful nation to say: 'We declare a war on terror'. And of course most western nations followed suit, as they should. For many years though America had known of the dangers, of the enemys made by the CIA and there deals with the middle east, most in the interest of oil, which lets face it is the lifeblood of the U.S. so in turn is the lifeblood of us here in Australia. The Anthrax used in attacks around and shortly after the towers, was from a place called Anthrax island, its location known to both the U.S. and Saddam and certain Splinter cells, yet nothing was done about it. My point is why did we (westernised nations and U.N./NATO) wait so long to put out a fire burning for decades? And then have the U.N. turn its back on the Coalition when people said: 'hey you cant just invade a country like that'. The U.S. simply said 'yes we can, what you gonna do about it?' Its been a long time coming and it will be a long time going.

[Jito463]

What's interesting is the number of people who accused Bush of invading Iraq because of the oil....yet those same people are silent now that it's been revealed that France and at least 2 others whose names I forget atm, were being bribed with oil by Saddam to lift the sanctions on him. They were getting oil for $5 US/barrel. In comparison, the open market is selling them for $30 US/barrel. That's 1/6th of the price! So it seems that the other nations *refused* to go to war because of oil. No wonder France didn't want to invade. That's money out of their pockets.

[BigTy]

I agree with you one small issue the group that did it still remains the head of that group is still alive.yet we are fighting a group for some part didnt have anything to do with the example you just gave. If that was his issue then well go after that group. then come back to the UN and say this is the direction we are going you can get in now or B$#@$ about it later. I'm a 100% backer on that. but as it stands we are fighting a big war on lets guess who we need to find today. while there are other matters that help just as bad.

Terror:
Violence committed or threatened by a group to intimidate or coerce a population, as for military or political purposes.
Intense, overpowering fear. See Synonyms at fear.
One that instills intense fear: a rabid dog that became the terror of the neighborhood.
The ability to instill intense fear: the terror of jackboots pounding down the street.


That include gangs, mobs, and street thugs. Yet i havent seen one movment on those people and I'm NOT just talking US here. I am one of th emost open minded people when it comes to race but the focus has been on one race here. lets open this thing up if its a war on "Terror". It's a shame when an old lady doesnt want to leave her home in her city becuase its a group of hood rats on the corner "Terror".
As I stated before I agree on the hunt for Bin ladin and anyone connected with that attack but to start wiping out people becuase "Terror" you have those issues in your own backyard. show your own people some support.

[ptolomeus3]

All decent people ( ) gave their opinion and thats good. Maybe one should really close this topic before some smart guys / gals use it for flaming ... I think I have a right ´cause I´m the President (2-3 people voted for me and none against, remember ?)
Maybe our Tron leaves it open so that he may edit or worse close it

[Iluro80]

The wrongest thing is Bush lied to make the war... As it were caricatured in an Spanish newspaper long time ago... in USA you "trust" and belive in your President.... some people seems stupid beliving all (like in the other countries, of course, but i maybe there's more % in USA, i think), and in Spain, Italy, and other countries we've assumed that our goverment is usually lyeing us !!

Well I really think that i don't live in USA and I don't want to go there (so there's no problem with the president) but like many other i think, with Bush, USA and Europe couldn't walk in a closer paths and we're separated for too long.

We've fortunately kicked Aznar

Arr.... srry for my bad Engl, I wish you could understand me well enough.

[BigTy]

The one good that comes out of this topic is that we all kept our cool and the sad part is as a nation it is disheartening to see us divided like this. I know in time once Bush gets to moving on some issue things will get better as of now I just hear the stories of how people were turned away at the polls or doors shut in their face and even scared into a vote. My wife herself had an issue she almost called me from the polls on where a guy was trying toplace the votes for her. In either way not matter who the commandar and chief is or will be in any year we ALL must give them support and pray.hope they will do the right thing for the US as a whole.

[shawn_nee]

For some reason this whole war reminds me a little of WWII. We were just sittin by while someone decided he wanted to change the world to suit him better. We didnt get into it till after we were attacked on home soil, then sent some military after that party but sent the brunt force up against a totally different party.

I find it very funny/odd/depressing that the man who said he would not rest till the person responsible for the towers is has shifted away from finding him, and has repeatedly stated at public news confrences(sp?) he doesn't care about Bin Laden, nor is concerned with his wherabouts (sp?). We have changed over to go after other countries who possess "weapons of mass destruction" but have yet to go after North Korea, Iran, and a few others whom we know without a doubt possess them , and have detonated them already.

I support our troops and always will.

on a brighter note he is on his LAST four years 4 years 57 days left till he is out of office. 

That's only untill he gets the rule stricken that allows only 2 terms.

[BigTy]

YUP you got it. Thank God for that .

[Iluro80]

shaw_nee what means " (sp?)."??

I should say that i'm happy for our troops who left the war ( for those who don't know, Spainsh peoble was/is against this illegal war, and it was an electoral promise of Zapatero, not caused for the terrorist attack in Madrid as it was said in many newspapers/TVNews.

There are a lot of countries that have dictators and/or tyrants but they don't have anything to win (economic/material) finishing with them.

Now the world will be scared again bc the Power of Bush.

[shawn_nee]

(sp?) = spelling in question.