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Poll: Will DVD DL die before it has time to take off?

Will DVD DL die before it has time to take off?

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#1 BigTy

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 01:37 PM

I was reading the othe rnight and ran across this artical which in some ways make alot of sense so I thought it would be nice to get the opion of our community. here is the Artical.

QUOTE
CES 2005 Special Report: Dual-Layer Standard May Disappear Soon

  
Written by Gundeep Hora    
Monday, 17 January 2005


Dual-Layered (DL) DVD writers may be affordable, but the question of concern is the media prices. The price per DL media averages out to $10.00, which is shockingly high. We talked to manufacturers at this year’s CES about prices and what they thought about DL media in general. The replies we received were far from positive and disappointing. According to a few blank media providers, DL standard may not have a bright future ahead of it. The reason is the upcoming Blu-Ray and HD DVD standards that are supported by world’s top most corporations.

Due to the aforementioned standards, DL simply appears to be redundant and more of a filler in the industry until Blu-Ray and HD DVD emerge in mass quantities. As far as prices are concerned, you can probably expect them to drop $6.00 to $4.00 per disc, but not much lower than that. Of course, prices are dependant on customer demand, but that was the general price figures we received during our meetings.

Verbatim seems to be enjoying the sales revenue with their DL media at high prices. Industry insiders reported that Verbatim was one of the first ones to completely focus their attention on DL media and hire an Asian firm for their CD-R and CD-RW media. Due to this, Verbatim was the first one to bring DL media into the market at such high prices and if the availability remains scarce, Verbatim is going to see their profits skyrocket this year. Many have reported that Verbatim’s goal with high priced DL media was to bring in as much in sales revenue as possible. When we asked manufacturers about the delay in their DL media, they reported that generating DL media in mass quantities is far more complicated than regular CD-R and CD-RW discs, and it requires quite a bit of financial resources in the production stage. The failure rate of DL disc in production is also one of the highest among all media variations, which also explains higher prices for these products.

Manufacturers also informed us that CD-R and CD-RW has significant life span in the industry. They expect the market for the aforementioned media to be fairly stable for the next two years, if not more. Regular DVD media also holds stable market shares and should drop in prices even more this year.

Currently, manufacturers are waiting for the next move from Blu-Ray and HD DVD media, and how they challenge the production costs and general market trend throughout 2005. Only then they will be able to determine the final price points for DL discs.

In summary, don’t expect DL prices to reach regular DVD disc prices this year. The popularity of the DL standard will definitely rise in 2005, but not to specific strengths. On the other hand, regular DVD media should also drop in prices significantly this year. High-quality DL writers will soon enter the market in vast quantities and features, which should give you a good enough choice for your selection. Until then, all we can do is wait for Blu-Ray and HD DVD to better predict the future of portable storage market.

UPDATE 01-17-2004: Many readers pointed out that you can purchase a DL writer for $65.00, which is true, but we were referring to writers from manufacturers such as BenQ, Pioneer and Plextor that all retail around $150.00, if not more.  To make the statement more clear, we have decided to update our opening statement to generalize more brands and price points.  We apologize for the confusion we may have caused, and thanks for taking the time to correct us.

Edited by BigTy, 17 January 2005 - 01:38 PM.


#2 2005

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 05:28 PM

It will die, Blue-Ray will be out before DL DVD media has a chance to get cheap enough for people to mess with it. And like it said, id have a hard time paying 2 bucks for a DL media let alone 4-6.... it will die before its ever big.

#3 maxxcool

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 06:35 PM

While blueray and HDdvd are better formats, until theres a massive adaptation form the consumer side in terms of players DL is the only alternative, note that one thing for sure is that with blueray or HD dvd recorders, they are going to be extremely expensive, likely in the 300$ range for a unit. The media will be like any other media once shipped, about 10$ a disc. in the mean time people will see the prices of DL discs drop to the 5$ mark or less. this will be fueled by the blueray/hd dvd players abilities to play backward compatible disks... worse than that... the sheer lack of need for 30gigs of storage will definatley stunt blueray/hd-dvd.. i mean how many ''extras'' do you need ? With most movies in nearly uncompressed format, you only need 8 gigs of space..

example, TROY.. troy squashed down with a loss-less compression scheme only needed 8+ gigs of space... what am i going to do with the other 20+ gigs? Most people i know don't watch or need extras, trailers or worse yet commercials sad.gif. How many times am i going to re-buy my favorite movies and see no gain in quality on a tv thats only capable of 1080i ?

and of course theres the ''quality'' aspect, sure the new formats will allow for uncompressed media, seamless multi angle films... uum but plasma tvs are still 1000's of dollars, and even good digital tv from the typical cable/sat providers is still way sub par. wheres the need? if i was watching movies on a 21''+ lcd screen on my computer i would see a great picture.. but the whole family isn't going to coral around the family pc for a movie.... until cable providers stop watering down digital signals, until i am actually getting 740p or 1080i on most of my tv stations i have no reason to by a lcd tv pr plasma tv to watch blocky mpeg conversions... let along replace all my dvd players, burners and media with something 90% of america/dog and world can even see the benefit of.

blueray and hddvd will replace dvd-standard, but like dvd VS vhs.. its going to take years. and in the mean time dl disks will get cheaper and people will use them while waiting for the 4$ mark for blue ray media... and the 100-125$ mark for a blueray burner.... when that happens im assuming hi-def tvs will be 60% common and at least affordable... then we will see a eventual switch, but as typical, this will go for a few years before its common place...

i bouth a 716-a plextor a few weeks ago, no i haven't burnt any dl disks yet, but when they hit 6$ in june i will, and i'll use them quiet a bit for making backups of movies that my wife takes on the airplane, or for the kids or family gatherings where i don't want johnny the slob touching my RTOK EXT ed.. wink.gif

my my 2 cents tongue.gif

#4 shawn_nee

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 06:50 PM

Maxxcool hit it on the head. It will take a long time for Blueray and HDDVD to become the standard. The only thing it will be good for at first would be to possibly start a catalog of your movies. It's just like when DVD burners were originally advertised, people went out and bout the burners, and discs for $15-20 a pop. Yes the discs are expensive to use, even $4-6 makes me cringe but it would be easier to justify it to not have to worry about compressing the movie if I dont have to. Granted I wont be able to see the difference either way, but just having to take the time of compression out of the back time makes it a little better. I see DL media staying around for quite some time. and if it drives down the current price of single layers then the cost of $4-6 is actually less if you take what used to be compressed to fit on 2 disc can now be compressed to just one.

#5 2005

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 08:55 PM

Dont forget that its not about what you want, the more advertisements and more commericals a comany can get on their dvd with thier movie means more $$ for them. And think about how many titles sell millions of copys, times that by an average of 2 a year (movies that sell a million plus copys) and how many blue ray disks is that right there. Not to mention the fact that ps3 had gone Blu-Ray so that right there is another couple of million disks, and with all these disks out there people are goana wana back em up, the ps3 will provide this area a huge market. I remember back when i had a 12 gig hdd, about 7-8 years ago, everyone was like youll never use that much space and now 12 gigs is mediocre. Also I bought this Nec ND 2510a that can do DL media back in the middle of this last summer, paid 80 bucks for the drive and have burned less then 25 dvds. Dl media was around 12-15 dollars back then and is still now 10 bucks a pop, and with no DL RW's that makes extremely expensive coasters... How long have DL media been around and their still 10 dollars each.. thats almost what it costs to go and buy the movie. Im not paying 10 bucks or even 6 bucks on a disk for a movie i can compress to 70% and have it come out great on a 30-50 cent dvd r. I just purchased 100 blank ridata dvd -r for 38 dollars with free shipping, and until i can get a deal thats atleast 1/4 that good on DL ill stick with the single layre disks.

This will also be huge for triologys or for tv show series... i mean comon all the simpsons on 2 blu-ray disks instead of 16 regualr dvds. Put all three parts of LOTR onto one disk and not needing to carry around like 5 disks worth of home movies.

Mass storage is very the future, backing up hard drives on 2-3 disks.... putting 30 immages onto one cd, DL media doesnt stand a chance and 300 $ for a Blu-Ray burner isnt that bad, dvd burners were same way and cd burners were more when they came out. Remeber when that 80 gig hdd was all youd ever need but now you got your eye on that 500 gig optical disk.. bigger is always better.

Edited by 2005, 17 January 2005 - 09:04 PM.


#6 Jito463

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:14 PM

That's it exactly, 2005. Anyone else reminded of that famous Bill Gates quote?

QUOTE (Bill Gates)
No one will ever need more than 640KB of RAM


#7 shawn_nee

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:20 PM

Im not saying that people wont flock to the store the day they are released, i'm just saying that it might take awhile for it to get cheaper.


QUOTE
That's it exactly, 2005. Anyone else reminded of that famous Bill Gates quote?


QUOTE (Bill Gates)
No one will ever need more than 640KB of RAM


Remember Laser Discs they were to replace VHS tapes look how far they went. I know that it's a different story, but it could go as fast as it comes. We could also see some other media crop up to put them all to shame. Either way DL media will stick around till Blue-Ray and HDDVD media get cheaper and drives are less expensive. You can only keep buying all new $20,000 equipment every other millinium.

#8 2005

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:23 PM

Inono man, i think that the PS3 backin Blu-Ray will be huge.

#9 2005

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:24 PM

QUOTE (Jito463 @ Jan 17 2005, 03:26 PM)
That's it exactly, 2005. Anyone else reminded of that famous Bill Gates quote?

QUOTE (Bill Gates)
No one will ever need more than 640KB of RAM

Yea and to think i have 1024 mb of it.

#10 maxxcool

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:27 PM

well see! tongue.gif :beer:

#11 maxxcool

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:40 PM

QUOTE
Remember Laser Discs they were to replace VHS tapes look how far they went. I know that it's a different story, but it could go as fast as it comes. We could also see some other media crop up to put them all to shame. Either way DL media will stick around till Blue-Ray and HDDVD media get cheaper and drives are less expensive. You can only keep buying all new $20,000 equipment every other millinium.


/nods/

heres the deal as i see it... we are the ones who wil lmake or break the blueray / hd-dvd / HD TV's / lcd TV's...

sure target and jerkit-city can push the lcd tvs, but pushing burners and media is a whole new issue. its the leet-geek whos gonna know the difference in media, price and reason behind the purchase. and when it comes to geeks are are pretty much middle ground men, we wait untill the price is reasonable for a family purchase (unless youre rich). ie 300 vs 150 is a big deal to a geek like me. sure i'll but blueray.. but im waiting untill its 150 or less (preffers 125$) and 5-6$ media..... i think that we will find that ALOT of the people buying the hardware and media will be exactly the same... so it will overtake dvd-s, but not a few years, just like dvd-s did to vhs... we drive that paticular market demand, along with system oems. untill we see 700$ dells with oem blue-ray.. again its gonna be slow..

once market acceptence hass occured things will go smothly

another icky aspect, is that we still have not heard alot about what DRM blueray may have inflicted on it. with riaa and MPaa on the pms warpath i have serious doubts of a fast for friendly adoption...

mind you i WANT a 150$ blueray burner, but untill i have...

1)sat or digital tv that can use the storage
2)a display device that can display better than 1080i
3)125-150$ burner and 5-6$ media

it isn't going to happen... sadly joe sixpack is about the same, as well as money concsious geeks and geekets tongue.gif

woot! hot topic babey... /nods to the bigty/

i would add that as a sysadmin 30gigs does sound nice for backups... smile.gif hopefully these disks are not UV sensitive biggrin.gif


*on ps3*
the ps3's blueray 'plans' are just a forward compatibility, this is in place simply becasue there a core developer of the technology. its providence how ever is simply to play movies and to throw yet another spanner into the now increasing back-up disk market for ps2 disks. it will have little more demand affect than buying a apex blueray player. mostly there doing it to make backups harder and to play movies.

Edited by maxxcool, 17 January 2005 - 09:47 PM.


#12 2005

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 09:52 PM

Id use the DL media if they would fall under 2 bucks each, i dont think that 4-6 is fair for an 8 gig disk when a 4.32 gig disk is under 50 cents.

#13 shawn_nee

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 10:07 PM

QUOTE
hopefully these disks are not UV sensitive
laugh.gif :sweat: laugh.gif :sweat: too funny

#14 pollutedshine

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Posted 17 January 2005 - 11:15 PM

The whole things a crock, at the speed optical storage is moving Blu Ray and HD wont even take off. I'm no expert but I feel DL prices should be down by now. An average of $10.00 a piece is ridiculous, couple of coasters and theres a cake box of SL at the minor cost of compression. Check this link by filling in the blank. english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C6624E2A-BFB5-4848-8AA6-9BBD541D43C3.htm (If your not sure the blank is: http://)

#15 maxxcool

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 12:42 AM

ahhh but thats where a quality burner comes in wink.gif My old Liteon POS had issues with 8x media.. my new plexi can overclock my 8x media and no coasters yet out of i'd say 20 or so... tongue.gif

but yeah, spendy...


just looked at the linkage... blink.gif blink.gif 510 gigs....... holy carp batman!

Edited by maxxcool, 18 January 2005 - 12:44 AM.


#16 2005

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 04:21 AM

burns can fail due to many reasons, and dvds are notorius for it. They can fail due to buffer under runs, running background apps running, bad media.. and on and on. Bad media is the big thing, i bought a 25 pack at a flee market for like 8 dollars ( of +'rs i think) and only 4 of them still work today. A buddy of mine bought 100 Ritek Ridata GO4's 4x -r dvds at 38 cents each and burned em at 8x with a hacked firmware in his ND 3500a and not one failed ( he backed up about 40 ps2 games and 60 dvd movies ) and they all work to this day.

DL media should be down alot more, it should be no more then 5 dollars each AT MOST, i think it should be more like 2-2.50 each and not a cent more... those are just downright expensive coasters... and i can tell you im not paying 10 dollars for a piece of plastic that serves no more a purpose then providing a place for my drinks to sit.

#17 UncleEvil72

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 04:34 AM

I priced the DVD9 disks today and they are waaaay to expensive to ever take off before blueray. the ones i found were a bliming 3 pack for 30 bucks thats 10 bucks a freaking disk. its just obsurd

#18 2005

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Posted 18 January 2005 - 09:04 PM

No kiddin

#19 shawn_nee

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE
aljazeera


Just want to point out the source of that info is not one of the most trused is it?

#20 pollutedshine

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Posted 19 January 2005 - 10:23 PM

QUOTE
Just want to point out the source of that info is not one of the most trused is it?
Shortly after visiting this page your computer will detonate............RUN Forest RUN! laugh.gif




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